Don't like abortion? Then keep your DNA inside your OWN body.

Since condoms and all birth control methods have a measurable failure rate if a pro-lifer wants to be truly consistent they should not engage in sex unless both parties are committed to the idea of raising a child. Abstinence or the Duggar lifestyle are pretty much the only non-hypocritical positions for a devout pro-life individual to take.

whatever happened to condoms???

"They're evil and cause cancer!!" This message brought to you by Ricky 'The Dick' Santorum

A pro-lifer should only be having sex with his legally wedded wife (also a pro-lifer). This way, when and if a pregnancy happens, there is no question of abortion.

I'll go a step beyond that. They should only even have sex with their spouse when the intent is to produce a child, never for recreation. If they are strict libertarian style pro-lifers it's even more problematic. To insure that they never need any state assistance, which they are opposed to, before having sex they should be able to guarantee that they have the resources to raise the child without assistance even if they were to lose their jobs, which is a predictable possibility in the current economic climate, which means having at least the $250,000 banked before they have sex for the first time.

andrew

yep..the only way to truly protect yourself is to abstain...condoms break.

To insure that they never need any state assistance, which they are opposed to, before having sex they should be able to guarantee that they have the resources to raise the child without assistance even if they were to lose their jobs, which is a predictable possibility in the current economic climate, which means having at least the $250,000 banked before they have sex for the first time

I know you were being snide, but this is a wonderful idea...I would add to this that they are married as well. The country would be a much better place if people would only take responsibility and plan ahead.

One of the main causes of abortion, is unwanted pregnancy. Whenever a female has sex, she is taking a huge risk. Given that risk is greatly reduced by using birth control, it remains the possibility. The man does not take that risk. He won't get pregnant. He won't be faced with a terrible dilemma. If males took the same risk as the female, there would be an upswing in condom sales. I think it quite possible the rate of sex itself would slow down. Until we can make sure that a man will have to be a father and be emotionally, financially and physically a father from the moment of conception onward, we cannot deny females the same rights (abortion). Although no one really wants to face the reality that life does indeed start at conception, it remains a reality which I am sure we will affirm once we can say exactly what life is.

If abortion is made illegal for females but males continue with a free pass, then expect females to become suddenly very very very very choosy about whom to have sex with. If raising a child would be a given if impregnated, than the male would have to be a good father role model, financially secure with good employment stability, not an alcoholic or drug addict and not abusive. Sex with prostitutes would also have to start with a signed statement of fatherly commitments should somehow a pregnancy occur.

When responsibility is finally a shared responsibility, then one could entertain prohibiting abortion except for special cases such as rape and the health of the mother. So to stop abortion, means to first to stop male abortion. Walking away and shutting the door behind you, is abortion. You are effectively removing that baby from your world and responsibility. Walking away is just a lot easier than going through an abortion like the female does.

uhh so what part of his taking a risk that He will get the female pregnant isn't a huge, big deal on his part?

So to stop abortion

Not every woman wants to through with a pregnancy whether they are married or not and that is never going to change. Circumstances and reasons vary and are personal and private.

We need comprehensive sex education and 100% effective birth control for both men and women to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

Bono

This is the problem; men don't consider GETTING a woman pregnant a "problem".

Exactly it is not their problem. Society does not make it their problem. We give men a free pass to sex without any responsibility for the result of sex. Some men like to make women pregnant. They do not fully understand just what pregnancy entails, or they don't care. I think a good part of that is genetically enhanced. The best scenario for a male to have offspring, many offspring and offspring that survive is to have sex as much as possible and whenever they can. They are driven by the strong desire to have sex. The repercussions of that sex are not center in their mind. Having sex is center in their mind. Females, however, have a better chance of survival and having children that survive and do well if they are choosy and pick to mate only with males that are 'dominant' however dominance and fitness is measured for that species.

landspirit: Some men like to make women pregnant. They do not fully understand just what pregnancy entails, or they don't care.

Some men are pricks. Some do care and want to support the woman in whatever decision she makes.

Bonos... you been talking to my ex???

She won't have sex? She's a frigid bitch.
She does have sex? she's a whore.
She gets pregnant? She's twice the whore.
She wants to abort? She's a murdering whore bitch.
she wants to keep the baby? She's a golddigging whore that trapped him.

Bitter much!! LOL

I wish this weren't so true, but it is, for some people...

Not all, by any means, but for some.

There are good dad's too. The ones that stick it out through thick and thin. :)

Andrew - you should talk to my ex. According to him, I got pregnant with our son on purpose... to trap him... we were already married.

He went to NY on compassionate leave, and made passes at my little sister. I gave birth to his son, alone. And raised him alone, for the most part. According to my son, being raised by women is like being raised by wolves... only not as hairy...

No; it's the men that act like that that are bitter. Disgusted would be more appropriate to describe MY feelings. I find them pathetic.

I was being a smartass sorry. I was trying to lighten the dark mood, not get you ladies riled up. I'm one of the nice guys I promise. :) Don't hurt me!!! LOL

There are good dad's too. The ones that stick it out through thick and thin. :)

That is me. My wife and son are the world to me.

According to my son, being raised by women is like being raised by wolves... only not as hairy...

I was raised by women, 3 of them in fact, and turned into a fine young man.

Andrew... according to my son - he has no opinion... LOL

He learned to pee standing up thanks to some very understanding male friends. (And Cheerios) He has grown up to be an incredible dad, a wonderful son, and from what I can see... a great husband. The twitching seems to have gone away... except when you mention his sisters... (he has 4 step sisters, one full sister, no brothers...)

He learned to pee standing up thanks to some very understanding male friends. (And Cheerios) He has grown up to be an incredible dad, a wonderful son, and from what I can see... a great husband. The twitching seems to have gone away... except when you mention his sisters... (he has 4 step sisters, one full sister, no brothers...)

Good for him :) You got the job done right :) Our munchkin is 5 so we have at least 13 more years with him and in about 6 or 7 it will be teenage terror time. Oh boy. LOL

Just remember... Silence is Golden... but Duct tape is Silver... :)

I'm kidding... really....

Actually... I think that what helped was that his step father was the dad he didn't have to be.

I like your article because it puts the responsibility to the pro lifer as well. You are right, it is the wrong scenario for a religious man, but he may have simply been looking for a date/mate.

bonos

perhaps, but some do I am sure

However, I doubt that very many pro-lifers actually practice that abstinence.

Yet when they do and are proud of it, many pro-choicers will belittle them for their views. I remember all the scorn the pro-life crowd drummed up over chastity rings.

Interesting how they will support a womans right to abort, but make fun of them if they choose abstinence or advocate for it.

Chastity rings are belittled for several reasons, one of which is the sick and twisted ceremony, where a girl's FATHER puts it on her in some sick symbolic wedding to her own father.

Interesting theory. Innaccurate...but interesting, none the less. My daughter said she wanted one and I took her shopping. Period.

Now, back to adult males that are anti=choice. Is there a problem asking them to practice the responsibility they are always talking about, Pat N?

Absolutely not. Is there a problem with pro-choicers really being pro-choice and not belittling those who DO what you're asking? If you want pro-lifers to practice what they preach, why do pro-choicers break out in hives at the mere mention of abstinence being taught in schools?

why do pro-choicers break out in hives at the mere mention of abstinence being taught in schools?

All forms of birth control should be taught in an unbiased way with no religious slant.

Why take her shopping for something you obviously don't believe in, Pat?

LOL. Read, bonos. You asked:

Now, back to adult males that are anti=choice. Is there a problem asking them to practice the responsibility they are always talking about, Pat N?

I responded with:

Absolutely not.

Yet because you aren't getting an argument out of me...which is obviously what you're looking for, you're going to sit there and pretend I didn't agree with you? Too cute.

Secondly, I thought pro-choicers were all for a women's right to choose? Are you telling me I SHOULDN'T have allowed Rebecca that choice and denied her of it? Interesting.

I'm asking religious pro lifers to follow their bibles and you are offended.

Offended? Not me, bonos. I agreed with you. No matter how much you'd like to pretend otherwise. Yet you still can't seem to bring yourself to say: "It's wrong to belittle pro-lifers for doing precisely what I'm advocating for in this article". Why is that, bonos? Rebecca is religious. Just check out her articles. And she is abstaining...just like you are requesting. Do you think it's "funny" to make fun of people who abstain? Because you sure aren't condemning it. I would think you'd be applauding her rather than getting all twisted up in knots about me agreeing with you.

You need to go back and read where I say that i am asking someone to live up to their own rules .

She is religious. She is abstaining. How is that not doing what you're asking? And why does it make you choke to acknowledge that she is?

You apparently don't believe abstinence believers can or should do that.

Um...have you read a single thing I've written? I took her shopping for the ring (that you belittled), She is abtaining (which you refuse to acknowledge). She is religious.

Either practice what you preach or stop preaching it.

She is doing exactly that. Why does that offend you so much?

Funny how asking something so simple as to live by your own rules is do offensive!

You're beginning to sound like a broken record, bonos. Why such anger at the fact that a young lady is doing EXACTLY what you're asking and why the inability to condemn your fellow pro-choicers for belittling it and making fun of it?

The topic here is MEN who are pro-life and preach against abortion yet refuse to stop sleeping around.

So you are OK with women who are pro-life and preach against abortion yet refuse to stop sleeping around? That ideology is a little sexist...dotchya think?

Parents are usually the last to know what teens are doing anyway, sometimes years later or sooner if their siblings tell on them. :) Based on experience this observation, 7 siblings, three children, 8 grandchildren and various friends of all of them.

bonos_rama

You have a lot more patience than I do, and I've paid the price for responding in-kind.

My hat's off to you! Great article!

Just for the record, Pat... my kids weren't brought up what you may call religious. They were brought up Pagan. Both chose celibacy and abstinence rings. My son gave up his at age 17. I have it in my jewelry box. My daughter gave me hers at her birthday party when she turned 21.

Both of my kids are pro-choice.

bonos_rama

Thank you, AZPaddy!

Anytime! I'm really amazed at the latitude given some when it comes to what amounts to harrassment. Despite reporting, e-mailing more than once, the offensive behavior continues.

And just to be fair, I do not expect any man who did not intend and made every precaution not to contribute to a conception to be forced to pay child support.

It is something people do not talk about as often as they should...women holding men financial and legally hostage with pregnancy.

If this stopped being an option to "tie down a man" you bet more women will ENSURE they either abstain, use contraception or early pregnancy prevention. I see too many young women trying to force a bad boy to become a good man with a pregnancy and bringing children into the world who are nothing but a means to an end are treated that way.

Then again, when you raise generations of women to believe their sole source of currency, power and opportunity is what lies between their legs, not their ears, what do you expect?

Finally! someone who makes sense.

Luther28, #7

If you are against abortion, then simply do not have one.

THAT comment should be copied and sent to certain Viners by tyler/Sally every month.

I agree with bonos-rama.

posted in wrong area...feel free to delete

where men want women to be the only ones to "take responsibility".

In other words, you only want to discuss "low lifes". Attraction to "Low Lifes" is not a pretty site for a women. Especially those that do it over, and over, and over again.

And guys that look for low lifes, deserve everything they get.

abortion is the only sticky area to me.

as Ron Paul has stated...no matter what you do...laws wont solve this....this is about morality.

and people who are morally opposed to abortion should not have sex with those who think its ok.

its about responsibility and living the life you preach.

The only ones that find its only the womens responsibility to make sure they don't get pregnant is "Low Lifes". It's not that hard to understand.

People that use abortion as birth control are "Low Lifes".

If ya don't want to get pregnant, Use what's in the free market and get sponges, diaphrams, condoms etc..... It's not expensive ya know. Getting pregnant is ! It costs a "Person" a life on this earth when you choose "Abortion".

Weird, how people will chain themselves to a tree to save a tree, but a human life, Nyah, ain't worth it !

Goes for women too!

What is so hard to figure out, "Low Life" Men and Women lead with their "Penis" and "Vagina" and not their minds. Lead with what "Feels Good", and you deserve what you get, chastising and all !

Sounds like "Liberal Feel Good policies". YOUR SCREWED! But it does "FEEL GOOD" Huh! :)

Your just gonna twist what ever fits your agenda Bonos_rama. Pro-life, Pro-choice (Usually the biggest fornicators), doesn't matter. Whomever fornicates out of lust, is a "Low Life", especially when they haul butt when the going gets tough.

Liberals ! That's all they're worried about instead of this. :D

bonos rama, I think you hit on something truly fundamental and I am actually going to pursue it and do a video where I ask men, "Are you pro-life or pro-choice?"

Those who identify as "Pro-life" I am going to ask if they practice abstainance until they are married or until they and the woman mutually decide to try for a baby OR as a second option, practice safe sex every single time they have sex.

I think it would yield interesting and revealing results.

While I agree that men and women share equal responsibility when it comes to birth control I sense a bit of "have your cake and eat it too" dealing with responsibility.

A man is morally responsible (or should be) for fathering a child. A man can be financially responsible up to 22 years or more in some states. People want to assign equal responsibility in this across the board. However a man has no say what so ever whether a child is born or not. That is totally up to the woman. So just how equally does this burden of responsibility without authority lay? It could be argued (I am not BTW but I can acknowledge the argument) that since abortion is legal it is solely the woman's choice whether to have the child or not? And shouldn't having it without the man's consent therefore relieve him of all legal responsibility? Or if the man wanted to have a child then the woman would not be allowed to have an abortion? You can't expect every man to fear the burden of responsibility if a pregnancy is realised if he doesn't have any say in whether the child is born or not. So just who shares the primary responsibility when it comes to such decisions? Who do the courts consider the primary caregiver if all things are equal? There are inequities on both sides.

Nor does he carry and have to give birth to the child. Gee, as much as I love and adore my son, having him nearly killed me, (I had a 50% chance of survival). I wouldn't do that again for anything. Surely risking your life is worth something in all this equality talk.

It certainly is Dowser. You are amazing.

No, I'm not-- I was blessed!

I guess what I'm saying is that most men don't really understand what it is like to carry and deliver a child. So, that MUST be factored in to the equation on equality.

I was playing devil's advocate in some of my comment :) And of course women are financially responsible as well; that goes without saying.

Yes. I believe men are allowed to terminate parental rights if they don't want the responsibility. That entails not having to pay financial support in return for not demanding to see the child

I don't believe that is the case most of the time. Men can easily terminate their parental rights, that is true. But in no way does it entail not having to pay child support. In most if not all states the woman has to agree to this condition as well. And even if she does agree, if she ever requires government assistance for the child the state therefore will go after the father for support. Also, I am not sure in how many states but where I live now the woman does not have the power to forgive the father of financial responsibility. The state approaches the issue with the assumption that the support is for the child, not the mother. Therefore the mother cannot deny this support (and of course a minor cannot as well). The only way to teminate your rights and financial responsibility would be with the cooperation with the mother and a non-binding promise not to seek money and not to name as a father on the birth certificate and legal documents in case she has to seek government aid.

In other words all the power still remains in the hands of the woman. If a man chooses not to wear his rain suit then understand that you are forfeiting all rights to decisions concerning the birth(or termination) as well as acquiring a financial burden for the next 18 or more years. Men have no say in these issues; the power remains with the woman.

That is the only say they do have in the matter. From that point on the woman makes the decisions. I understand that. She also makes decisions that will affect the man, of course. One human should not have dominion over another, that is true. In a way though once a man decides to have unprotected sex and a woman becomes pregnant she then has dominion over him :) Not his body but his finances or property. She alone will make the decision that affects the outcome of the man's life. Whether he is a father or not; whether he is obligated for 18 years financially or not. The power rests with the woman.

I do understand what you are saying. The man cedes power to the woman and gives her dominion over him to a degree. That one coupling that both agreed to ends the rights of the man when it comes to decisions concerning having children or not and the responsibilities/ emotional losses that rest on that decision.

Power? Dominion? It's sex for heavens sakes, that could culminate in a woman having to go through a nasty abortion with emotional repurcussions or carry the baby for 9 months, and maybe even nurture it for 18 years and more.

The power rests with the woman.

Don't copulate. The power lies with you! There is no dominion!

Don't abstain from sex.... that is unhealthy IMO..... wrap that rascal ..... or put your life in someone elses hands.

Good article and I absolutely agree!

-------->^^

How about the guy doesn't ask, but Makes sure by not getting her pregnant Or is that too hard a choice? A man being celibate for instance or having a vasectomy or using a condom.

Way past time for the women shouldering the responsibility of procreation when a male has to be the other half of the issue

tyler-1708225, and that is all there is to it? This is extent to which you have considered abortion - a snuff out? Sounds pretty callous to me.

#11.1 You're right, what are the chances of that, so it doesn't even make a good argument. It might be wise for two persons involved to get to each other better before engaging in sex.

How likely is it that a religious pro-life married woman that gets pregnant by her husband will abort?

More likely than you think. Almost all the woman I know who have had abortions were raised Christian, Catholic andwere pro-life up till that point when they found themselves in a bind, desperate or their life is in danger suddenly realize for the first time WHY choice is important.

Common scenario. Marriage is not working, husband is abusive, wife is economically dependent on him. Knows she has to get out and hopefully alive. Knows a baby is not an option.

#11.3 And out of the millions of abortions performed, exactly how many do you know that you can make your claim. We all know people we can use as an example in almost any topic being discussed, but it is a moot to the issue.

tyler not many. But I would safely say that most women who have abortions did not see this as part of their life plan and values any more than someone who was always a peace-lover and was forced to act violently out of self defense.

There are many pro-lifers "in theory" and "if all goes well", is all I am saying.

if he believed life is sacred he wouldn't abuse his wife.

Yup it does seem counter-intuitive from a rational standpoint bonos because YOU are rational and you demand ethical and intellectual consistency. Hence this whole thread.

But not everyone is like you.

The same way you find pro-lifers playing fast and loose with unprotected sex. The same way you will find people claiming they believe life is sacred but not ACTING so in how they treat their fellowman and woman.

Like I said, some people are pro-life "In theory" or more about being part of a religious or political identity. But in real life, in real time...you would be surprised.

#11-4

• Thirty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions identify as Protestant and 28% as Catholic.[6]

bonos rama is following a very rational line of thinking:

Pro-Life means- In support of all life and holding all life sacred.

Therefore, logically, a Pro-life man would be vigilent about not contributing to any situation that carries even the possibility of an abortion.

Therefore, logically, a Pro-life man would hold a woman's life sacred and never abuse her or endorse abuse of her.

If indeed this was the logical line followed by the pro-life movement, I would be pro-life too!

Sad truth is that many who hold a pro-life stance do not hold it for "Sanctity Of Life" reasons. Sure, it just sounds nicer to say this than to say, "I want to control a woman's body!", "I want as many births as possible!", "I want to attach punitive results to sex for pleasure only"

How you can tell when someone is genuinely pro-life because of holding life sacred?

bonos just gave the way. It is how they value the life of the mother and not putting her in that position to begin with. It is how they value the life of the baby after birth. When you have pro-lifers saying, 'Let the mother die!' or "Rape is an unexpected gift." you know it is NOT about sanctity of life.

It is about controlling the woman.

bonos just gave the way. It is how they value the life of the mother and not putting her in that position to begin with. It is how they value the life of the baby after birth. When you have pro-lifers saying, 'Let the mother die!' or "Rape is an unexpected gift." you know it is NOT about sanctity of life.

It is about controlling the woman.

That really sums up the anti abortion rant in a nut shell.

Teach your son's that women are not property. Teach them all that sex has a price. Abstinence works if the person has a moral compass. We know that compass is not tied to religion.

On the more serious note we should develop a contraceptive that is given at birth and you have to pass a screening to ensure you will not have retro fundamentalist superstitious tendencies to pass along./s

I've been there. Back in the day when the youngest was in HS, someone decided to and with the permission of the principal put up a banner, close to the entrance door. You walk inside and see the banner overhead on the wall.

It depicted a teen girl and boy, through steps, Until she was obviously pregnant, then the boy disappeared from the picture. She was left standing there with a baby in her arms.

Yep, that went right through me. I went straight to the principle's office. I told him what I thought about telling My Son, that he could get a girl pregnant and then he could 'disappear' from the situation. I told him either put the boy back in the picture or take it down. It wound up being taken down, Because the person who put it up was a Southern Baptist woman and firmly believed that the girl was responsible for the pregnancy. Sure it is, Wrong.

And to beat all, she had kids! It was like don't you know the part the Man plays in procreation? geez But no, it boiled down to all the Adam and Eve stuff. I finally told her, look a Man wrote that part of the Bible, do you honestly Believe he'd tell the truth? Last I heard she was still at it, blaming women. Guys couldn't get a better advocate for them not being responsible for procreation. sighhhh

#12.2 It reminds me of lectures we received in high school years ago which was to let the girls know no matter the boy involved, they would be the one going home with the baby. Good advice yet today.

It is Not good advice to ....the boy. So what is he suppose to do? Wait until the baby is 18 and then Oh Hi I'm your Daddy? Not what I taught my sons. Daddy is from the getgo, not sometime later when Daddy feels like it or regrets that he wasn't part of their life say in 30 years or so when the grandkids show up. And that Has happened too. I know my late husband's stepfather pulled that little number with his brother. Hi how you doing? After 30 years of No Birthday cards, no Christmas presents, Nothing and then he shows up because he got religion? Sorry, doesn't compute. Fathers are either there from the get go or they are not Fathers to their children.

Too true, :) Not including the Daddy only leads to the Daddy getting the idea that he's Not responsible. My sons changed diapers, made bottles, walked the floors with theirs. :) And they have a way better relationship with their children then a lot of their HS friends did and do. Simply because those other boys were Kept out of the family deal. Not a good idea.

I did not say the boy should walk away free, just that it is food for thought for the girl to realize all else aside she is the one who will get pregnant.

just that it is food for thought for the girl to realize all else aside she is the one who will get pregnant.

Have you ever met anyone (male or female) that did not realize that is only females who get pregnant?

Have you ever met anyone (male or female) that did not realize that is only females who get pregnant?

Yep !

tyler, It is not Solely a consideration that the girl is the one that Delivers the baby, it is the issue that the baby couldn't be Made without a Daddy. Preaching that the girl is the one that has the baby without preaching that the male of the gender did his part is ..... ignorant of the Biology of Human procreation.

So to answer your food for thought with one of my own....you can own a car, but if there isn't any gas in the car you are going Nowhere. ergo, don't get the girl pregnant if you're don't want to be a Daddy.

uhhh, grumpy ride is more like a rollercoaster ride, to me meaning that there will be all sides represented in comment. ....not grumbling....

bonos_rama

Complaining when peo life men are asked to take responsibility for their actions is grumbling.

And you're being kind. I call it butt-hurt whining.

The point is the hypocrisy of it.

Someone says: "I'm against abortions because of my Christian beliefs so I, nor anybody else, should have one."

But premarital sex, along with a @!$%# load of other nonsense, is also a Christian sin and yet unmarried, pro-life, Christians participate it in all the time. They are engaging in irresponsible behavior.

#14.2. Aren't you assuming that those against abortions are Christians having sex outside of marriage? None of us know the intimate details of anyone else's sex life.

#14.4 You call it "choice." Didn't the woman choose to participate in the act, did she not have the choice to better acquaint herself with the man and his stance on birth control, pregnancy, abortion? Except in cases of rape, women still control their bodies and have choices prior to a pregnancy even occuring.

#14.6. No I'm not offended, just don't understand the mentality that the woman is a victim of the man. Except for cases of rape, the woman still holds the original choice to engage in sexual activity.

Where did anyone say the woman is the victim of the man?

Ummmmm, Your own Article. In case you forgot bonos_rama. :D

#14.8. Now your talking - "responsiblity." Where has either partner shown any responsibility when an unwanted pregnancy happens? You are talking solution (abortion) not reponsibility.

#14.10 "women who exercise their rights over their own reproductive choices."

There are also choices which they chose prior to the pregnancy.

Comprehension bonos ....comprehension. Can't take your article any other way than the way it's written.

Men this, and men that. Only the "women" knows better and "Men" take advantage of the "Poor" woman. Pffffft.

Do you actually read what you write bonos_rama ?

#14.14 "if someone is a pro-life male, he shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage. that's what it boils down to."

But then you don't know that they are having sex outside of marriage, do you?

#14.16. Who are you talking about? Who are all these "he's" that you are so familiar with that you can claim they are sleeping outside of marriage with women that are pro-choice? Did the woman say she was skipping birth control because she believed in abortion and would just take that route if she got pregnant? Did she ask the man if he was pro-life or pro-abortion.

Tyler, if someone is a pro-life male, he shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage. that's what it boils down to.

That makes ZERO sense. You do know that being pro-life and being pro-abstinence are two different things, right?

A pro-life male that has sex better be ready to be a daddy. A pro-abstinence male shouldn't have sex outside of marriage.

yes, but did YOU realize that this article is about my stating that pro-lifers should remain abstinent until marriage?

Why? Pro-life simply means you are against abortion. If a pro-lifer is willing to become a parent and not abort, why should they abstain? Are you saying the ONLY (ahem) "choice" for an unplanned pregnancy is abortion? Sure sounds like it.

Again, there is a difference between pro-abstinence and pro-life.

dupe post. Damn "bubblegum" error.

#14.20 And you know for a fact that all these pro-lifers are having sex outside of marriage, using no birth control, with pro-abortion women. You might want to come up with some facts before deciding they are about to become daddys.

You might want to come up with some facts before deciding they are about to become daddys.

...coming from the guy who can't seem to provide any stats on how often this situation occurs and is putting up a strawman argument for the sole purpose of bashing Christians.

#14.25. Your obvious is going right past me. It's obvious that pro-life males are having unprotected sex outside marriage with pro-abortion women? Facts, bonos, facts? And I suppose all these pro-life males are also responsible for all the sexual transmitted diseases to these poor women too, even though they didn't bother to protect themselves that way either.

#14.28. No, it's not striking a nerve with me, but I'm wondering why you are trying to demean pro-life men by accusing them of something you don't have any way of knowing anything about. Why so quick to jump on pro-life men as having sex outside of marriage, using no protection, and with a pro-abortion woman? Did the pro-abortion woman use abortion as a reason not to use birth control? Not to question her partner and warn him she was not concerned about either of them using birth control because she would just get an abortion. Unless she was raped, she had all the control and her choices were made before the act occured

#14.30. Just who are you asking and why? You don't even know who they are and what they are and aren't doing. And spare the old condom breaks rhetoric. You are simply bashing pro-lifers while providing no facts to support abortion. Why has "pro-abortion" been changed to "pro-choice"? What's the difference in the result to the unborn? Do they think the terminology changes the meaning?. Does abortion sound so terrible that they don't even want to be associated with the word themselves.

#44.32. Don't like abortion? Then don't have sex with pro-choice women.

You made the accusation, not me. You made the claim against pro-life men, bonos, the burden of proof is on you. None of that silly "prove he didn't crap." You would be a blast on the article on NBC about JFK and his intern girlfriend. All your fellow libs are blaming the woman on that one. LOL

I will cite just a very small sample from the link below

http://www.republicansexoffenders.com

Tom Ganley, former Republican Congressional candidate, and current "Family Values" hypocrite, is facing three felony charges of gross sexual imposition, and single counts of kidnapping, abduction, solicitation, and menacing by stalking, according to Ryan Miday, a spokesman for County Prosecutor Bill Mason. No arraignment date has been set. Mr. Ganley allegedly groped a woman in his car dealership and attempted to insert his fingers in her vagina after sticking his hands down her pants. See the original complain here.

Alan David Berlin, 40, a longtime staffer for a Republican state lawmaker, was charged on May 29, 2009 with a first degree felony for unlawful contact with a minor. He is also charged with criminal attempted sexual exploitation of children, criminal solicitation to commit sexual abuse of children, all second-degree felonies, and other offenses. authorities say Berlin suggested dressing up in animal costumes during online sex chats with a 15-year-old boy. During a search, agents found wolf- and cat-type costumes in his home.

Republican sex offender & former Regent University law school assistant dean Stephen L. McPherson, who was indicted June 7, 2008 on 13 felony sexual assault charges involving two girls, has entered a guilty plea to two counts of forcible sodomy and two counts of object sexual penetration. He is set to be sentenced May 22. There was no agreement on a potential sentence, except that prosecutors will recommend a cap of 18 years and six months.

Republican sex offender and former North Country assemblyman and current state Parole Board member, George "Chris" Ortloff, 61, was arrested on Monday, Oct. 13, 2008 on federal charges that he used the Internet to solicit sex with minors. He was arrested following a sting operation at a Colonie motel and had allegedly arranged for a date with a minor he met on the Internet. '' The New York Post reports that he had child pornography and sex paraphernalia in his possession when he was arrested. State Police reportedly searched Ortloff'''s home in Plattsburgh and a computer had been seized from his Lake Placid real estate office, officials said. Ortloff, married with two sons, retired from the Assembly in 2006 having represented the 110 th District. '' He was appointed to the part-time position on the Parole Board, a six year term which expires in 2012, a position paying him $102,000 a year.

Republican sex offender & Missouri State Rep. Scott Muschany, (R)-Frontenac, was indicted today, Aug 6, 2008, in connection with a reported sexual assault of a 14-year-old girl on May 17, the day after this year’s Legislative session ended. The alleged victim is the daughter of a state employee. The girl’s mother and Muschany, a married father of 2 children, were romantically involved, the woman said. (Aren't "Family Values" a wonderful thing?) In a morbid twist of irony, Muschany was a co-sponsor of legislation that toughened sex offender laws in 2006. According to his legislative biography, Muschany and his wife were licensed as foster parents with the Division of Family Services.

Republican sex offender & longtime stalwart Republican operative Peter Hong was arrested July 23, 2008 for solicitation of prostitution. Police spokesman Peter Panos said that the arrest came during the first day of a two-day sting operation during which "johns" and prostitutes responded to ads placed on the Internet and in print. Thirty-five people were arrested Wednesday and Thursday, Panos said today.

Republican sex offender & candidate for Mineral County (W.Va.) Commission Wilton Frederick Bland, 30, of Bayberry Place, was arrested March 23, 2007, after police received a complaint concerning a juvenile boy who said Bland had wanted him to appear nude on the Internet. Bland charged last year with 136 counts related to sexually based crimes against children has been sentenced to a possible total of 85 years after pleading guilty in both Grant and Mineral counties. was charged at the time with 73 counts of possession of child pornography, 45 counts of sexual assault in the first degree for allegedly having sex with a child under age 11, nine counts of use of obscene matter with intent to seduce a minor, seven counts of display of obscene matter to a minor and two counts of employing a minor to do sexually explicit conduct, according to the West Virginia State Police.

Republican Delegate Robert McKee, known as an advocate for children's rights, is the focus of a child pornography investigation after officers searched his Hagerstown, Md home. McKee is not facing any charges right now, but as of today, Feb 15, 2008, he has resigned his position as both a state delegate and as executive director of the Big Brothers Big Sisters Club of Washington County. In a statement, McKee said he is entering treatment to, "get well and stay well." Shock waves echoed through Hagerstown, as the news that he was being investigated for child pornography spread like wildfire.
**We will be keeping an eye on this story for further developments** ***UPDATE*** - Robert Mckee entered a guilty plea of possessing child porn on September 6, 2008. He was sentenced to 3 years in prison on November 21, 2008. McKee's journals document that he simultaneously printed images of child pornography from the Internet and printed stories describing sexual acts between young boys and other young boys or adult men. Someone from McKee's home called the Washington County Sheriff's Department to tip off authorities and provided them with printed images from a computer.

Republican sex offender & Department of Children & Families press secretary Al Zimmerman, 40, was arrested Friday, Feb 1, 2008 and charged with eight felony charges of using a child in a sexual performance. According to an arrest report, Zimmerman offered two teens money in exchange for photographing them in sexual acts. The victims were ages 16 and 17 at the time of the crime, and at least one may have been in the care of DCF at one point, according to the report. Authorities believe some of the images date back to December 2005, the arrest report showed. Zimmerman is suspected of taking photos as recently as Friday, the report showed.

The Republican Mayor, who is also the Pastor of the Temple Lot Church in Collins Missouri, a town in St. Clair County, is accused of trying to convince someone whom he thought was a teenage girl to meet him for sex. Diamond police say Allen D Kauffman is charged in Newton County with four counts of enticement of a child after an online investigation that began in mid-November.
Diamond Police Detective Jim Murray says he posed as a 13-year-old girl named Cindy and was approached by a man who used the screen name duke dukeadk on Nov. 15 about noon in an online chat room.
Murray says Kauffman discussed meeting her to take nude photos and to have sex. Over the course of seven conversations during the past two months, transcripts show each chat was sexually graphic. Murray say Kauffman recognized the girl’s age, and even showed some hesitation, teasing the girl about whether she could be a cop.
Police say Kauffman repeatedly asked the girl to use a webcam, and didn't wait long to use his. The detective saved some photos from a webcam on Kauffman's computer in his home in Collins.

#14.35. I am simply telling pro-life males that if they really believe in their own convictions, they should live by them.

Like Kennedy should have lived that devouted Catholic life he claimed to. And don't the libs hate religion especially Catholics.

#14.34. "Ah, you can't address the topic, so you are attempting to derail."

I'm addressing the topic by showing how hypocritical you libs are. On this seed it is the poor woman against the pro-life men. On that other one it is "the no good women leading democrat men astray. LOL

#14.35. I can match you posting democrat names of small time cheaters, but come on, Kennedy and Clinton were presidents. They held the highest office in the land and used the White House like a sex den. Nice conversation, but I'm off to the other one where the hypocrisy and laughs are real entertaining.

sunshine girl, #15

"Unmarried sex" *sigh* the best sex of all! LOL

Unmarried stranger (as in just met) sex is the best sex of all! Oh to be 17 years old again!! Seriously.

"Unmarried sex" *sigh* the best sex of all! LOL

As someone who has been with the same man for all but 2 years of my life after 18 (but without getting married), I can attest to that!!!

My favorite bumper sticker

"77% of anti-choicers are male, 100% of them will NEVER GET PREGNANT"

I'd adapt it to "inside or up next to..." Condoms!

American Spirit LOL.

I would adapt it to "Keep it out of a woman's vagina"

I mean there are thousands of other places, FUN places to put it instead. I am sure with a little imagination most men can come up with more than few alternatives.

but but isn't that 'killing' part of a baby?

#17.2. Bill Clinton?

tyler LOL!!!!

Good one tyler. lol

tyler, it's still a man's responsiblity from the beginning of the process...no sperm no child, it is in the biological process. So killing sperm is the same as killing part of a future baby.

hahaha Perfect!!

"So, I see you're wearing white?"

"Is that cranberry juice you're drinking?"

The only thing that worked with the rhythm method for my mom and dad.....was eight kids later

I understand it's not for everybody but some of us are naturals.

Yeah, too bad more of them aren't as 'naturally' adept as others. :)

How does the rhythm method work for STDs?

Good point SW Missouri Mule, good point, it doesn't..lol

Well if you carry a pocket pap smear it works very good.

STDs are checked through the blood, Bad Fish.

Pap test can only tell you if you have HPV (or the cancer it causes), Yeast, active herpes, and some bacterial infections. Oh yeah, and trichomonas (those are kind of cute). HPV is technically an STD, but almost everyone has it already.

I spend most of my day looking at PAP tests.

Yeah because our mother chose to have us. Choice being the important concept.

Isn't it interesting that the vast majority of anti-choice people can never get pregnant?

We needed this article, and a lot more like them...

bonos you're doing a good job ....Enlightenment of the masses is always difficult. :)

I second mstanley @23.5.

I was looking for info on the anti-choice legislators of the GOP who are engaging in illicit sex.

Because of a comment about pro life and pro choice, please let me say that being politically pro choice does not ensure pro abortion. One is political and the other personal. I would not consider making that decision for another woman. I know what my own decisions would be under certain circumstances, and that is all the freedom I need. Sorry if this is considered a derail, but it needs to be said. Choice - freedom for every woman to choose what is best for her.

Isnt it interesting that the people who have no problem with abortion....have already been born

I having hard time thinking of a more ridiculous comment.

Everyone who has no problem with anything have also already been born. People who have no problem with smoking are already born. People who have no problem with guns are already born. People who have no problem with gay marriage have already been born.

You know why that is?

It's because you don't become a "people" until you are born.

How many zygotes have told you they are prolife?

Because of a comment about pro life and pro choice, please let me say that being politically pro choice does not ensure pro abortion. One is political and the other personal. I would not consider making that decision for another woman. I know what my own decisions would be under certain circumstances, and that is all the freedom I need. Sorry if this is considered a derail, but it needs to be said. Choice - freedom for every woman to choose what is best for her.

Ding!!!

We have a winner.

I am vociferously politically pro choice. I will not EVER vote for a politician who would seek to strip my wife or daughter of the right to make their own medical decisions.

To me, it is the most important political issue of our generation. It is what separates people who actually believe in personal liberty, versus people who think their poli/reli ideology should become law that violates women's personal liberty. In my opinion it is the ultimate in government interference into personal matters. Period.

That being said, I can't ever image making the decision to terminate a pregnancy. That is how I feel, personally, for me.

My wife became pregnant while we were both still in college and not yet married. Needless to say, it was not planned, and not a particularly good time. Fortunately, we are aligned both politically and personally with regards to abortion (it was one of the things that attracted me to her, well, that and my fetish for statuesque hazel eyed red heads with a great ass)

She decided, and I supported her, that she would take the pregnancy to term and that we would welcome a child into our lives. My wife dropped out of school and began planning to take care of a new baby. I continued to work full time go to school part time. We welcomed the most remarkably beautiful little girl into ours lives a few months later. We were married just over a year after that.

Nine months from our honeymoon we welcomed my son into our family (yeah, birth control is NOT 100% effective). My wife was STILL in college and dropped out a second time to care for a baby that we were not ready for emotionally or financially. It was not a great time for us. We struggled to pay bills. My wife battled severe depression as a result of the isolation and frustration of not finishing college.

Fast forward twenty years later. We both ultimately finished college, raised our kids, made successful careers, and along the way built the most amazing family I know (I'm biased). I simply cannot ever imagine not having my children. They are the most amazing and important part of my life.

I simply cannot image the guilt and remorse that anyone makes make that decision can feel.

The only thing that could be worse is for someone else to get to make that decision for you.