75 year old woman nearly denied her seat by 2 obese passengers

This has nothing to do with weight. The women were wrong in thinking the seat was taken, the attendant said otherwise. Airlines don't weigh people and assign priority, they go by paying passengers.

As for weight...my own weight is 103 and when I fly (which is often) I may prefer to have more room but I am not a "special" person. They don't address me as "Your Majesty" when I sit down. If I am seated next to someone heavier than I am I take up my own space and fly like my fellow passenger flies, no matter what they weigh. Much heavier passengers buy 2 seats, heavy but not requiring 2 seats buy one seat and that is none of my business. This new thing about attacking someone with weight is not productive as we are not a protected group just because we may be skinny. Keep in mind that to me most fliers are heavy. Granted I wouldn't mind being treated like royalty after they weigh every single passenger on the plane but then again I'd be flying on an empty plane.

We have to be a little nicer. Otherwise we are overweight and talking about those other overweight peeps. America is not exactly the skinny center of the world.

They may feel it is "unfair" to have to buy two seats,

You know, if your ass is so @!$%#ing fat that you crowd into someone else's seat to the point of smashing them, that's too @!$%#ing bad. Either buy another seat or lose some @!$%#ing weight.

This has nothing to do with weight. The women were wrong in thinking the seat was taken,

I disagree with you. I think it WAS about weight. I think they were hoping to get bonos-rama's M-I-L to move so they would have more room for their fat asses. The flight attendant had to step in and inform them that no, they could NOT hog the middle seat because it was taken. How the heck would they know that the seat was taken anyway, unless there was someone actually sitting in it OR if one of their fat asses had actually paid for it?

As I said...I weigh 103. To me you may be the fat one I don't want to sit by except we all enjoy the seat we purchase. It is NOT a weight issue if the women thought the seat was taken and the attendant corrected them no matter what they may have done with the armrest. You have to understand that the seats are almost inhumanly small so there is discomfort no matter what you weigh. Someone is always going to be bigger or smaller.

Your grandma is in her 70's and gave her perspective of that situation to you, though you know the fliers only had to purchase one seat and therefore were not that big. Grandma may well have misunderstood the situation. That happens too with age. Do we request that she fly in the back of the plane or walk to her destination if she doesn't pass a memory test?

My whole point is that the planes are no longer built for comfort. Your story is but one of the things that cause an already crammed public to be upset. Will we ever demand airlines go back to human seats? Never but we can at least understand that when we scream at the weighty public which includes most people in America, what we are really furious about is seats that are too small for even the skinny folk to enjoy. Why blame someone else.

It is NOT a weight issue if the women thought the seat was taken...

What I am saying is that there is no way these women could have thought the seat was taken! There either had to have been someone SITTING in the freaking thing or one of them would have had to have purchased it. If a person comes up to you and says, "Hey, that's my seat" and you THINK it's taken, the logical thing would be to compare seat assignments to verify, and then direct the person to the correct seat or let them sit the @!$%# down!

The issue is not whether one is fat or not, it is whether one is taking away another's seat. If I pay for a seat on an airplane, I expect full use of the seat I paid for. When I was a little girl, I used to be the kid to sit on the front bench seat of the car between my parents, because I could scrunch myself up small and sit still, while my three brothers got to squirm freely in the back (no seatbelts back in the early 60's.) When I sit on a plane, I still sit like I did between my parents- making every effort to keep my elbows, etc, in my space and not to jostle my neighbors. I expect my neighbors to do the same- they are not my squirmy brothers, they are adults.

Here is the thing Bono, You can do that too. That is why armrests move. You may be obnoxious enough to make me wish you sat somewhere else but I didn't pay for your seat so you can do anything you want with what you purchased. Logic says we ask out of courtesy. That still counts for something. Based on this last answer I would say, Grandma's memory may an issue or obnoxious attitudes may be the problem. I am sorry but as much as I fly, there has never been a time when a passenger who only buys one seat is ever allowed or demands to have them both. It just doesn't happen. A passenger may incorrectly think the seat is taken by someone else who may have accidentally sat there earlier but that is about it.

To believe anything else is to know that the problem with the two women was not their weight, but rather their heads. When you are a flier with a head problem, being heavy or skinny is just a side bar.

You can sit by me anytime. I don't weigh people but you have to be courteous if we are going to be crammed together. I am.

I agree.

I often ride publiuc transit to grocery stores, or other shopping errends, and it's often that some fatty oozes into the seat I paid for. It's not something I intend to tolerate on a bus or train or airline. That woman should have put both armrests down and sat down.

That was the seat she purchased. I bet those fatties didn't offer to reimburse her for her ticket.

Have everyone pay by the pound, and the blimps will be going Greyhound next time. Or riding freight trains with the other buffalo.

I am sorry but as much as I fly, there has never been a time when a passenger who only buys one seat is ever allowed or demands to have them both. It just doesn't happen.

What?? Because you've never seen or experienced it means, "it just doesn't happen"? Give me a freaking break!

That is why armrests move.

Yes, and the middle seat has shared armrests. What if the guy next to you is so fat that he has to move the armrest UP? That means the poor slob in the middle gets his or her space invaded.

Bonos, your mother in law deserves at least a partial refund from the airline. They may not be legally on the hook to compensate her for her discomfort, but they are morally obligated to do so. Had I been in her position I'd have made a good deal of noise about it, and my fat seatmates would have been in a fat hurry to get off that plane.

I don't think it's likely we will see airline seats getting any bigger any time soon, or more space being created for legroom; both of those measures would result in fewer seats per plane, which I suspect airlines would regard as unacceptable. Charging passengers by the pound, and mandating every passenger above a certain weight pay for two seats, really is the only sensible solution until Boeing and Airbus start designing much more capacious planes.

YaddaYadda nope, it is because no attendant would never allow it whether accidentally or on purpose. Focus.

I will be on a 23 hour series of flights one of which includes a 13 hour leg in exactly 2 weeks. When I get on those flights I am confident that I will sit by others who weigh more than me. I am also confident that the seat I purchased will be my seat no matter if a skinny or weighty person incorrectly thinks I can't sit there.

Some things just are and it is illogical to even contemplate the worth of someone saying that weight has a thing to do with rudeness, seat assignment or comfort. There is no comfort on aitline seats, period. I have been on seats with just myself and my husband. He is built with swimmers shoulder span, built like a dream and works out. It is not comfortable. What makes anyone think flying is comfortable? What makes anyone think rules can be re-written?

What makes anyone think that old fashioned courtesy can make any flight as good as it can be when we are all crammed into seats built for children? The onus is on you to show an example of how passengers are allowed to claim seats they didn't buy so don't try and turn it around. It is illogical.

As an aside...there are some things we can do to compensate for horrible seats. You can look up airline seat dimensions and make a list of those airlines that have reasonable space. We did that for our upcoming flight and picked an airline that is far more comfortable than US lines. There are 3 or 4 airlines that fly in the US, are fairly reasonable and are not caught in that small seat mentality. This round we are actually going to be able to stretch out. How great is that? LOL

I think if we speak with our pocketbook the US airlines may find it more profitable to mimic the more comfortable airlines that do exist. People are cranky and rightfully so!

Norcal2,

Why do you try so hard to defend fat slobs who ate way to many cheeseburgers and now think they have the constitutional right to discomfort the rest of us?

Bonos we agree. People are getting so obese then they react as if you are the problem. I blame the airline they should have charged the obese people for two seat. If you can not fit in one seat then you need to pay for two. If it had been me @!$%# WOULD HAVE HIT THE FAN.

Hole in the Wall:

Simple answer - I fly a lot. Because to me you are a so-called fat slob unless you weigh around my 103. At some point we have to look at what the airlines have done with seats instead of me blaming you. I am as mad as everyone, but I am mad at the source of the ill who cause people with a some amount of weight to feel fat with undersized seats. Obviously in this story the women only bought one seat. Had they been what you are picturing they would have been required to buy 2 seats. So this is all quite unnecessary.

Why doesn't the public get mad at the airlines and demand more instead? We are to busy focusing on a few pounds that now look like mountains. We deserve better no matter what we weigh.

YaddaYadda nope, it is because no attendant would never allow it whether accidentally or on purpose.

What the flip are you talking about?? You said you thought the fat chicks were simply mistaken. I'M saying that's crap. Yes, the flight attendant had to force the issue, so of COURSE I agree that flight attendants would never allow someone to claim "seat taken" when in fact, it's not. That's not my point. My ENTIRE point is...those fat bitches knew exactly what they were doing when they tried to force bonos' mother in law to take another seat.

The fact that the flight attendant stepped in to resolve the problem is, pretty much to me, "so what?" The fact that she had to do it in the first place is what pisses me off.

Baloney, Norcal, unless you are ready for flight costing 5 or 6 times what they do..which is what the 1970 rates adjusted for inflation would look like.

The 2 buffalo could have bought 1st class seats on a different airline which would have given them considerably more room.

I think if we speak with our pocketbook the US airlines may find it more profitable to mimic the more comfortable airlines that do exist. People are cranky and rightfully so!

I agree! Airlines are packing more people into tighter spaces in order to make more profit. And there ARE airlines out there that give you more room, and it's a pleasure to fly them. I, personally, have no problem paying a little extra to fly an airline that takes passenger comfort seriously.

Ok I am going to be a bitch. All you have to do is look around you. Clothes are bigger, but state same sz, chairs are bigger to accomadate obesity, why should they make plane sits to encourage people to continue to be pigs? When you are fat, you know you are, do not expect others to allow you to spread over in their seat and touch them. I fly alot also I DO NOT allow others to spread into my chair and touch me. I paid a lot of money for my ticket, if you are spreading into other chairs maybe YOU are the problem. If you are a obese size then you should have to pay for two chairs not one and expect some stranger to share with you. The only person he is allowed to spread into my chair is my son, he will sleep on me and vis versa

I might be a fat slob to you but so is everyone over the age of twelve it would seem. BUT I fit in my seat and never infringe in on your space. That's all people on this thread want. You seem to think that it is ok for people to take some of your space because they don't know what running shoes are. I don't care what anyone does sinceit is not my problem. But when you start to get into my space it is my problem and you might get called fat sitting next to me on a plane (that is a fat person getting into my space, not you norcal)

Bob-970091 there are airlines with leg space and reasonable prices. Look up last years Passenger Choice Airline of the Year. It went to the 5 star line of Asiana. Their leg space is the same as US airline's business class in their economy class. I am flying them at the same cost the United flight would have been. AND they allow 2 check in luggage and a carry-on. Go figger!

It is hard to have to do the work and go over the details when you want to just get to a destination but sometimes a simple thing like looking up seat dimensions and comparing costs can make for a better flight. That is one of the best kept secrets to fighting back.

Hope that info helps! Look it up and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. They are not the only ones either. You just have to look at the seat size and the cost, which in my case was identical to United.

I just think we all have to get mad and get better informed so we can fight back when possible.

bonos_rama obviously you don't get that you are always fat to someone. Look at all the responses pretending someone who bought one seat is fat as if an airline would allow them not to buy the required 2 seats for specific weights. It bears repeating so I'll repeat it until it sinks in...103...you're big if you sit by me. LOL

Get it yet?

And yes your 75 lb daughter would think I am big. That is the point.

When are we going to make people accountable? It is noit this airlines fault people are to large for their seats. And no they do not make them purchase two tickets, now if Bono's otherin law would have made a big deal they may have done something different. People need to be held accountable for themselves, quit blaming others.

Look at all the responses pretending someone who bought one seat is fat as if an airline would allow them not to buy the required 2 seats for specific weights.

Airlines often do not force the borderline "non-seat-fitters" (yes I made up a word to avoid using the word fat as apparently it causes a misdirect of the conversation). Either the person working the counter thinks they might fit or just not doing their job, but not all people, who purchase 1 seat fit in that 1 seat.

I use to fly quite a bit and if you haven't been smashed between or next to a person whose stomach sits on top of the arm rest, count yourself lucky. Perhaps, it was the fact that I was often flying back and forth to Hawaii (we do tend to have larger people), but more often than not, I lost an arm rest on a flight. I'm no 103, but I comfortably fit in my seat; my sides come no where near the arm rest less I'm specifically leaning over it.

I'm sorry, but airlines should not modify the norm to appease "non-seat-fitters." They should simply comply with the seat dimensions as they have to comply with the carry-on bag dimensions, or pay an extra charge (the cost of an extra seat).

JmetheSad I always pick my seat ahead of time to avoid that horrid middle seat. Two of any sized people stuck on either side of me can be confining to me. Lately we have been drifting away from the window seats to the aisle seats as you get momentary leg space to stretch out the giant blood clots we're probably all getting as a reward for flying the friendly skies. ;-)

I agree they should not modify the norm for one group but they should modify the norm for all passengers to feel a little more comfort. Remember the norm was more leg space at one time. I think they would make that decision of norm based on profit. If they found flights that do have space are filled and their airline is going at a much lower capacity, that decision would be easy for them to make. We'd have leg space. Granted you would not know if people are rebelling as now the airline uses flight roulette rescheduling to avoid emptier planes. But still...

Courtesy always applies with the arm rests as well as the seating environment. We never used to be so cranky. Today's flier is miserable and I don't blame them.

Courtesy always applies with the arm rests as well as the seating environment. We never used to be so cranky. Today's flier is miserable and I don't blame them.

I completely agree that people should fly with courtesy, but when a person can't keep themselves within the confines of their own seat, they are incapable of being spatially courteous and that is a problem those who can't fit in the seat need to address. Although, the seats may not be comfortable, they are still a reasonable size for the average person. Airlines should not be blamed for passengers not being able to fit into the seats and those who fit into the seats should not have to squeeze into slivers of space to accommodate those who aren't aware enough to purchase 2 seats or not fly at all.

I don't like to "pick" on people because of a difference of appearance, but in this type of situation, if special arrangements need to be made, it's on the individual, who requires it, to plan accordingly and not for those around them to accommodate them simply to be PC or whatever.

JmetheSad we seem to have lost that loving feeling when we fly and it shows in the element of courtesy traded for self preservation in some cases. Sad that no one can escape rude but you have a better chance on a plane before it takes off. I have seen someone removed for an unfunny joke, there is no way anyone should think a dumb joke got someone booted and being pushy or rude won't have the same results. Airlines do not take anything from anyone now. It has changed a lot since 911. As for weight, I think they have a systematic method for requiring someone to buy 2 seats but anyone below that is as paid for as we are so the problem may exist in what the airlines use to make that call. I certainly can't blame a person who legally paid for the single ticket the airline sold them. I know it is uncomfortable for them as well if the small seats are a bad fit but I think that is where the airline is not resolving the problem they create with those small seats. I hear everyone's pain from either side. As I said we do have to focus on the real problem, either one still being the problems of the airline whether they are selling seats that average sized people can't sit comfortably in, or someone with any weight can't sit on. They sell the tickets, they control the problems they create. That is why I'd like to see passengers, big or small, being more selective with what airline they are willing to fly - to send a message. You are not picking on people, you are being honest and the situations are real problems.

At least that is how I see it.

I would have no problem with people of a certain BMI having to buy two tickets for two seats.

Let's stop with pretending

Indeed. Let's stop pretending you were there! Yeah....I caught a fish thissss biiiggggg!!

*places soapbox down*

*Hops up*

Ahem:

I gotta be honest here, it's pretty plain to see that the two obese people were trying to defend that seat because they knew they needed. The plane was clearly full and they knew that seat was taken. They hoped that by stonewalling the elderly lady, that they could force her from the flight or into another seat.

They knew openly that they needed another seat, and tried to bully someone into losing their seat! That's despicable. And I'm sorry, if you're to fat to sit in an air-line seat, you honestly should not be flying, you could be a serious security risk to the rest of us if there is an emergency. Go on a boat, take a train, drive... just don't fly if you can't fit.

I have extremely little tolerance for obese people who try to get their body type as an acceptance factor. No, no I will not accept you as being fat. And don't play this off as the same way as the Civil rights debate, or Gay Rights, that's a straw-man argument and it *ahem* holds no weight.

Will I be mean to you? No, it's not in my genes to be mean to someone. But will I stay silent when an obese person complains about foot/knee problems, diabetes, and health-care costs? Absolutely not. They can act offended; OK, Good, you're offended - Do something about it.

What's more offensive though is entitlement. People can counter with some pathetic argument saying "What is a normal body weight anyways?" or that "Airline seats are notoriously small anyways." -- I fit fine in them. The average body isn't very hard to conceive. Our bodies want to be naturally thin but we feed them more food than they need or can process ergo; fat.

Yet despite that very fundamental, natural law of physiology and nature itself. Fat people feel that that they have to make being fat acceptable because it's easier than losing the weight.

And what a sad day it is when fat people would rather change society to accept them than to lose the weight.

And I'm not talking about people with beer bellies, a little pudge, or even husky people. I'm talking about the top of the top obese people, you know the ones I'm talking about who don't just need two seats on an airplane, but need assistance breathing because their lungs are being crushed by their fat. The ones who doesn't fit into a car, or can't get maneuver their fat to get out of bed.

It's a shame because they need help, and it robs people of legitimate handicaps of that care. People who because of accidents, birth defects, or degeneration who NEED that specialized care. And it's being robbed by people who need to eat less, and get out more.

*Steps off soapbox*

Agreed, and it is all about the despicable thing these two tried to do to this poor 75 year old woman.

Andy, I applaud you. Very well said!

Once again, please point out to me the rules airlines have for purchasing two tickets for a obese person. I have not seen this in the print before. I still do have not seen this rule Norc.

I have seen some people so large they can not fit down the aisle. This is becoming a big issue for buses and planes. Americans are getting bigger just go to the mall a watch people. Children are getting fatter and eating worse. So much so they are removing soda machines from schools and putting out healthier foods. Kids do not need these bad diets, I see morbidly obese kids at the hospitals, people need to be held responsible for their own habits and not blame the places they choose to eat at. Geesh its just STUPID when people do not take responsibilty for themselves and what they eat. 31 inches is the sz of my double sink.

venom-2169685 I'll tell you this once. I accidently gave you a checkmark when I was trying to mark "Inflammatory." Please ignore it.

Yes I have already said someone is big to someone, or small and that is the logic about trying to say someone is large or small. None of us are perfect. As for you, when you call troll please save it for someone like yourself who calls names. In all of these conversations people have been respectful of many differing opinions. That seems to me to be what Newsvine is best at. Thus far I get along very well without cussing or calling names. Few come here just for people who think the same. It would bore me to death.

Next time you speak to me please understand I do react to interesting adult conversations and like to trade opinions.

Sherry, I suspect they are all different but don't know, so you probably have to check each airline. I know Southwest uses the armrest as a gauge. If any passenger is literally, physically unable to put the armrest down they have to pay for a second seat. If the armrest can come down and nothing blocks it, they ride in one seat.

I'd check whatever airline anyone flies with to see if their restriction matches that one.

Norcal2: From what I can see in the above comments, you weren't just offending me with you 103 pound comments. As far as I can tell, you are one of those people that love to shove your opinions down everyone elses throat. To me, that is a troll. But, NO you're the innocent one, right?

"Simple answer - I fly a lot. Because to me you are a so-called fat slob unless you weigh around my 103"

How isn't that inflammatory?

Vernon I am going to try and communicate in hopes you understand my view...never fear, I hate trolls as well. Unfortunately I do fly a lot and hate it but it is all you can do sometimes. But no I think you misjudged the points I am trying to make. We are all different sizes in America and there is no "special" group no matter what size. I have stayed consistant with that as I think it is important. Airlines are the ones in charge of policy so if we look for blame I am afraid it falls right in their laps and not in the lap of someone who qualified for a single seat. It is an issue for all fliers.

As for my giving a counter point to what you believe, take a look at those who feel as you do. They clearly stated their view just as I did. I did not see them as trolls, nor did I call them names. I think they mean exactly what they say, right or wrong just as I do. I saw their differing views as points of discussion. Many made some strong points and they did so honestly. You'll never find a thread where we all agree and I doubt you'd want it. So sure, you may not agree with me but any time you disagree you are safe as I am the one to do it with. Have I changed your mind? No I haven't. What made you think that if I have a perspective it would not show throughout my conversations? I don't expect anyone to change their minds but if they start looking at the airlines for solutions maybe something good happens.

Just so we understand each other.

Norcal2: how dare you accuse my grandmother of being senile? I can personally guarantee her memory is working perfectly. For what reason other than the fact that they were so fat that they spilled onto the other seat would those two people claim that the seat was taken?

When did I say I was there? Did you even bother reading?

Your reading comprehension is nil it seems - my point is that you were not there yet you're reporting each incident as though you were there. You're relying on second hand information at best, which seems extremely exaggerated. Have you ever witnessed a flight attendant allow a passenger to wander a plane prior to take-off looking for a seat? Maybe she was on a bus! Why are you going on about this? Don't you know most airlines have policies in place already about overweight travelers? Overweight seatmates are among the airlines' biggest complaints. It's a fish story!!

The answer to this seems simple and had the flight attendant been aware of the furore, she or he could have informed the CPT and upgraded the elderly woman into first class. THAT would have effectively admonished the two spatially challenged fliers who together seemed to require three seats and would have REWARDED the elderly woman for being disenfranchised by those two. Fat or thin, smart or stupid, anyone who has to sit in those tubes hurtling through the air in order to reach their destination KNOWs that no two tickets are priced identically. THAT is what needs fixed! Nonetheless, I wouldn't want to sit between two rotund endomorphs on a plane, in the movies, at the doctor's office or In ANY setting which would necessitate their flesh touching mine. Sorry - that is more than I care to endure. For those who wish to fly - there must be accountability. Frequent flier or rare traveler: human endurance has its limits. The aircraft is not the subway where one may get up and move to escape the encroaching adipose tissue of those to the left or right. However, it has been my experience that obese people KNOW that their burdgeoning mass interferes with the comfort of their fellow travelers. Sadly, intellectually KNOWING that one is FAT is not analagous to ameliorating that fact. My answer is the same: talk to lead flt attendant, or CPT, explain the situation calmly and sanely and then ask to be upgraded to first. Away from the expanding and in this case, DISHONEST passengers.

This is yet another fine example of why allowing everyone the ability to do everything on their own and not use a travel agent is such a bad idea. Think about this, 20 years or so ago, we used agents for everything - including airline tickets, I can recall hearing people be told by an agent that they would need to pay for a seat and a half for comfort. No doubt the seats are small on planes, but the fact is, many people, by their own doing, cannot fit in a single seat. If you know you are going to "spill" over into someone else' seat, give them the courtesy and respect by purchasing the extra space. EVERYONE purchasing a ticket has rights - to utilize the space they have purchased - obese or not, this does not entitle you to take up part of another seat.

Mister Momo your grandmother????? What are you talking about???? I thought this was bonos_rama's grandmother on the flight???? Am I missing something????

Are you both identities or did you post something I didn't see? I don't mind saying I am confused. This is getting strange.

Phew. I thought I was seeing things. lol

In any case I am sure grandma is just fine but it can happen. My own mother forgot where she left her keys until she forgot where she left her car. lol The biggest problem with the story is that the women argued with the flight attendant trying to keep the seat for themselves. It is beyond hard to believe that two women would tell the flight attendant they insist on keeping a seat someone else payed for without getting into heap big trouble. Flight attendants will kill you for less. They are not pushovers as a rule. That one is hard to believe as this is the time on the ground when flight attendants don't take much and will boot you for much less. In any case I don't doubt grandma experienced a bad experience from her perspective and unfortunately it left a bad taste for her and that is sad.

I do think something happened that made for a bad flight for her. There are just a lot of different aspects fitting in to digest like weight and rudeness being 2 very different things. There is always remedy for rudeness and as some have noted remedy if you don't have enough room. I wish it had a better outcome no matter what the issues and experience may have been for her.

It is hard for me to get mad at anyone who is sold a ticket for a seat no matter their weight. I am not that generous with my feelings about the airlines splitting people up this way and making both sides angry. I think they need to fix what they create.

Rudeness is another thing though...serious rudeness should be automatically a pass off the plane before that plane even lifts off.

I used to think I'd put up a stink if an obese person took all the room UNTIL THE FLIGHT WHEN IT HAPPENED.

I took a look at my fellow seat mate and realized that they already feel bad as it is that they are heavy.

I wish there was something to do about the problem but I hardly think so. While I am not 103 pounds as someone keeps pointing out on this seed, I am not fat either. There is nothing I can do, so I deal with it and get to where I'm going.

I don't think she lied either as I do think she gave her perspective of what she went through. I asked you because it can be an issue, not because I think she is not sharp. You are lucky although I have known many older folks who are sharper than everyone around them. In any case they do have remedy and it is unfortunate that her experience was bad. It is a struggle to picture it but maybe the good is that as stated it may have been an anomaly. Glad it worked out.

Rudeness is not a great asset in any plane. I only differ in the area of weight. I remain convinced that airlines opting to shrink seats should get the backlash for the contortions they put us all though. They are also selling the tickets so I fully blame them if someone next to me needs 2 seats and they gave them one. I remain unmoved by an argument that someone who buys a ticket just as I do and qualifies for that seat under any airline guidelines must be expected to refuse the one seat they sold them and demand that the airline sell them more. It just isn't human nature to do so.

That is about it. I have enjoyed this thread but I am just repeating at this point. So I'll close with I hope people do speak up and find alternatives and fix this mess so all the stories can stop and we can go back to flying but getting there alive...and happy. Currently we are a miserable group. lol

Norcal some how got the impression that the two large people either side of your 75 year old mother-in-law were women when they were actually two large, rude men. At my age and acquired attitude, I would simply have told them, in my most calm and serious "I'm going to kill you" voice, to move the @!$%# over. I'm 55 and have dealt with too much crap to let others try to intimidate me. At 75 it may be a different story. I can see my own mother in that situation, small and sweet as she was, grabbing the nose of one man and telling the other to have more respect for his elders.

Flight attendants will kill you for less.

Or at least grab a couple of beers and deploy the emergency slide.

It's not about weight, but size. Just like the carry-on test - If your ass will not fit between these armrests pay for a larger seat in first-class or two in economy.

Some things just are and it is illogical to even contemplate the worth of someone saying that weight has a thing to do with rudeness, seat assignment or comfort. There is no comfort on aitline seats, period.

I fly nonstop New York-Beijing somewhat regularly, and I find the standard coach seats on Continental to be no cause for discomfort (I'm 5'9", 160 lb). Perhaps you've flown only on airlines with child-size seats, but there's no merit to your claim that modern airline seats are so narrow that a 103-lb person wold be uncomfortably squashed unless you're no taller than, say, 3'5". Your swimmer husband may well be a different story, of course.

I have been on seats with just myself and my husband. He is built with swimmers shoulder span, built like a dream and works out. It is not comfortable. What makes anyone think flying is comfortable? What makes anyone think rules can be re-written?

Actually, there are existing requirements for sufficiently fat people having to buy two seats. The regulations, though, are often poorly enforced.

Airlines are the ones in charge of policy so if we look for blame I am afraid it falls right in their laps and not in the lap of someone who qualified for a single seat. It is an issue for all fliers.

If that's what you actually think, why are whining about "What makes anyone think rules can be re-written?"

Just like the carry-on test - If your ass will not fit between these armrests pay for a larger seat in first-class or two in economy.

It'd be awesome if airlines would have mock seats that each passenger has to sit in before being allowed to board. Heck, put it behind a curtain to save embarrassment, but at least it'd remove instances where fat people with love handles that flow over armrests like lave flows wouldn't have to subject next-seat neighbors to volcanic encroachment.

I fly nonstop New York-Beijing somewhat regularly

How much money does it cost to fly to the Chinese Empire?

It'd be awesome if airlines would have mock seats that each passenger has to sit in before being allowed to board. Heck, put it behind a curtain to save embarrassment, but at least it'd remove instances where fat people with love handles that flow over armrests like lave flows wouldn't have to subject next-seat neighbors to volcanic encroachment.

I like that idea. Maybe Airlines can be divided into sections that could seat passengers of different sizes; the bigger the seat, the greater the ticket price.

How much money does it cost to fly to the Chinese Empire?

It costs no money to fly to a fictitious place, only sufficient imagination (and perhaps hallucinogens).

To China, it's typically about a $1400-$1800 roundtrip.

It costs no money to fly to a fictitious place, only sufficient imagination (and perhaps hallucinogens).

Knock it off. You knew what I was talking about.

To China, it's typically about a $1400-$1800 roundtrip.

That is not bad. I thought it would be more. I think I would like to visit the Chinese pandas someday and maybe stop to visit South Korea and maybe Japan too. It is probably a long flight though. I hope if I ever visit those places in the future, I would not have to sit next to obese people.

Knock it off. You knew what I was talking about.

Oh, I'm sorry I got in the way of your ignorant xenophobia. I'm fairly well-versed in your racist bulls---, or do you really need me to remind you of your bigoted attempt at a "travel advisory" to China, that was handily obliterated by the two readers in that discussion with actual real-world experience in China?

Oh wait, I suppose I just did remind you. Darn. ;-)

Oh, I'm sorry I got in the way of your ignorant xenophobia.

You are ridiculous. China has always been an Empire since it was established over TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO. The bloody conquest of the independent nation of Tibet only embellished that fact.

You are ridiculous. China has always been an Empire since it was established over TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO. The bloody conquest of the independent nation of Tibet only embellished that fact.

Yep, keep goin' with that trendhopping "compassion" for Tibet--nothing like vehemently taking sides in an issue you know next to nothing about.

Perhaps, at some point, you might gain a marginal motivation to actually talk (and listen) to people who understand China (i.e. people who live/have lived there, and are actively politically aware), instead of cursorily skimming Wikipedia and gorging yourself at Free Tibet propaganda websites. ;-)

P.S. - Are you a fruitarian yet, or are you still going with the "I'm outside of the human species" excuse?

Yep, keep goin' with that trendy faux-compassion for Tibet--nothing like vehemently taking sides in an issue you know next to nothing about.

I know that the Chinese rule Tibet with a military dictatorship under the false cover of the "People's Republic of China". I know that the Dalai Lama is exiled and can not return to Tibet. The Chinese Empire does exist like the Soviet Empire existed and the Japanese Empire existed. They existed because they conquered and destroyed free nations.

I know that the Chinese rule Tibet with a military dictatorship under the false cover of the "People's Republic of China".

It's really adorable how confident you are when you're making s--- up. You really should read more, lest you miss the fact that the Tibetan Autonomous Zone enjoys far more concrete autonomy than any other Chinese province. I mean, really, you could at least try to mitigate your bulls--- by not going completely off the deep end with the "military dictatorship" claim.

Even journalists who barely half-ass their research would laugh at that line.

I know that the Dalai Lama is exiled and can not return to Tibet.

Since you bring up the Dalai Lama, you do realize that he's explicitly stated that his goal isn't Tibetan independence, right? Or, did you even miss that tidbit in your online travels?

The Dalai Lama doesn't even support your superficial outrage about independence, which I find rather amusing (at your expense, of course).

The Chinese Empire does exist like the Soviet Empire existed and the Japanese Empire existed. They existed because they conquered and destroyed free nations.

Yeah, reiterating lies doesn't make it any more credible, especially since you tried to list two things you "know," and one of the two is complete bulls---.

P.S. - bonos_rama, apologies if this is way too off-topic. Feel free to tell us to stop. :-)

bonos_rama, apologies if this is way too off-topic. Feel free to tell us to stop. :-)

I apologize too but Jack started it.

I apologize too but Jack started it.

Ya just can't help the bulls---, eh?

Ya just can't help the bulls---, eh?

It is not my fault that you provoked my statements.

Ah yes, I apologize for mentioning flying to Beijing in an article about airline travel. I should always watch for xenophobic lurkers whenever I make any statements whatsoever. After all, you never know where they're lurking and what might set them off.

Jack, don't apologize because your well traveled. Why should you have to.

My son travels all over the world, and when he visits China, he says it makes him sad. He doesn't like traveling there.

Myself, I have never been, but I do love Chinese films. Their films have a recurring theme.

Boy, did I just commit a violation or what??

I love Jackie Chan. Is he Chinese? Gamora is my all time favorite giant flying turtle movie and Godzilla is a great song. Rush, I think. Then there is/was a band named Loudness but I think they were Japanese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKeJkAJRSH8

I am not well traveled and history was my worstest subject.

My son travels all over the world, and when he visits China, he says it makes him sad. He doesn't like traveling there.

Did he give any reasons why? Compared to the US, the air is still a pretty big problem in big cities, the food could take some getting used to, and toilet facilities at scenic locales are sometimes rather, ahem, crude. But, the people are usually inordinately nice to white people (though a lot of people don't really know how to queue, and personal space bubbles are all-but-nonexistent).

I love Jackie Chan. Is he Chinese?

Yep. He was trained as a Chinese opera acrobat, not a strict martial artist, which is partly why he's so good at stunts and physical humor, as opposed to Jet Li's more thematically limited "I'm just a total badass" martial arts choreography.

Nothing like that, Jack. I believe it has to do with something more about himself, than anything. He's a lovely man, and I think his sadness stems from...I think I will leave it alone.

I just know it has nothing to do with the 'people' of China.

He'll send me pictures sometimes, and when he was in Norway, again, I told him to go to the town-square and yell out to all our relatives we'll never know. He did.

His goodness touches my heart.

Godzilla is by Blue Oyster Cult. The same guys that wrote songs glorifying suicide and hot asian women.

BOC? Boy was I off. Suicide songs were written by many artists. Some were more... ah...artistic than others. Teen depression has been largely ignored for at least as long as I've been alive. Today's teens are doing as I predicted some 20 years ago. They are hurting so badly inside that they are showing it on the outside by self inflicted wounds and breaks. And the parents still don't get it. They don't want things. They want limits, consequences and respect for their future.

And the parents still don't get it

Spot on, Mule.